Could Boston provide reparations? City Councilors are pushing for a commission to study it

Boston is the latest city to weigh the possibility of reparations. Two Boston City Councilors, Julia Mejia and Tania Fernandes Anderson, are part of a group that's filed a proposal to create a new 15-member panel that would investigate the long-term effects of systemic racism and how Boston can right the wrongs that still hurt African Americans today.

The two joined Saraya Wintersmith, in for Arun Rath, on GBH’s All Things Considered Friday to discuss the proposed commission's goals, what they say to critics who argue reparations are unnecessary and whether there is the political will to explore the question in Boston. What follows is a lightly edited transcript.

Saraya Wintersmith: To start, tell me, what's the end goal with this commission? Are you both hoping to see Black folks in Boston paid once this is all said and done?

Councilor Julia Mejia: It's important for us to, you know, note that we're taking this one step at a time. Our current goal is to establish the commission so that they can get to work on exploring reparations proposals for African Americans here in the city of Boston. And ultimately the conditions that make reparations necessary have been a result of government interference and public policy. So as a design for reparations process here, it is crucial that for us — as elected officials — that we literally take a step back and listen to the voices of the people. And in this particular instance, the voices of the people have made it loud and clear that they want a reparations commission.

Councilor Tania Fernandes Anderson: I think, to Julia's point, is that we're not necessarily specifying exactly what that looks like right now. Like, the whole point of the commission is to be able to study and survey and actually create the conditions of the structure of what that would look like in the future.

Wintersmith: Some might argue that Boston, because it's within one of the first states to sort of end slavery and has this reputation for being extremely progressive, it's one of the cities that did the least harm to Black residents. What are you saying to those folks who think Boston doesn't owe anyone anything, or that the conversation about reparations is unnecessary?

Mejia: Well, you know, I really don't think it's up to us to tell victims of systemic racism what they're experiencing in our cities among the least "harmful" to Black residents. The fact of the matter is, is that there has been harm committed, and we need to be able to move beyond this idea that the conditions that necessitate reparations are now in the past.

You can draw a through line between Massachusetts' involvement in slavery and economic and social and political inequities that we see here today. You know, for example, merchants in Boston — and anyone who used free labor — profited immensely off the enslavement of Black people, which led to more property ownership and generational wealth for white families. And today, the net worth — and we already know this — for a Black family here in Boston is just $8 in comparison to $247,000 for white families.

So reparations, in my personal, humble opinion, is more than just about slavery. Economic segregation in our city still continues to thrive, throughout the 20th century and lives on to this day. So the fact of the matter is, is that the conversation goes beyond slavery if we look at the continued economic suppression of Black residents have faced here in the city of Boston.

Wintersmith: Councilor Fernandes Anderson, I want to turn to you. It sounds like what Councilor Mejia is describing is sort of systemic. Are you coming across many people who are confused about the concept of systemic racism? And what are you telling them?

Fernandes Anderson: I mean, whether or not the confusion is a reality, that's another conversation. But my response is always that we go to the numbers, right? So we, to echo Councilor Mejia's point, it's not just about slavery or whether or not the commonwealth was established post the era of slavery, but rather the perpetual cyclical systems that were implemented. We're talking about segregation, then redlining, than even busing in itself had its own issues. And now we're, you know, in the '80s with the crack epidemic and all of these issues — and how the system has treated the marginalized community, poor working-class or Black and brown people in general in comparison to the rest of their counterparts.

So I think that for people who are saying, you know, "Boston is so progressive, that's not a reality here," we've established that racism here in Boston is a public health crisis. We have the data. It's not an argument whether or not these systems were perpetuated by systemic racism, it's a matter of people coming to truth in order for us to reconcile and repair. And I think that is what the commission would do.

Wintersmith: If you're just joining us, we're talking to Councilors Julia Mejia and Tania Fernandes Anderson about their proposal to establish a commission to explore the possibility of reparations in Boston. Ladies, I want to ask both of you: As you well know, the African diaspora is big and varied. Who are we talking about exploring reparations for?

Mejia: That's, I believe, that's the commission's work to seek answers to that. This is not one easy answer to simply say, "All of these people," or "These people but not those people." You know, it'll be a lengthy process, I believe, which [is why] we're empowering the commission with a staff and budgeting to ensure that they can explore issues like this. Ultimately, we all know the why, but what reparations looks like, in my opinion, is not up to us. It really is up to the commission.

Wintersmith: Councilor Fernandes Anderson, I want to give you a chance to jump in here in case you have anything to add.

Fernandes Anderson: Yeah, I mean, I think that — to be very clear — Black Americans have always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to economic mobility or systemic racism. And I feel that the immediate answer is: the African American people. We then can tailor that, or condition that a little bit, to Councilor Mejia's point. It's that, if we're saying that the commission should do a study, then we cannot promote ourselves as experts just yet. We know there's a need, and so we're making a proposition and we should wait for the studies to determine how that is executed.

Mejia: You know, can I just say one more point before you move on to the next question — I just want to underscore how important it is for the listeners to recognize that this whole initiative is really being led by those who are living the realities and doing the work. And, you know, oftentimes government is always setting the agenda, and this is really an opportunity for us to not replicate the white dominant culture and insert ourselves in ways that are going to further harm. And that's why it's so important for us to create space for the commission to set their own agenda.

Wintersmith: And Councilors, is there political will for something like this right now? I know that you have had at least six of your Council colleagues sign on as sponsors to this piece, and if they all vote in favor of moving this forward, you have the votes to send it to the mayor. Have you been in touch with Mayor Michelle Wu about whether she'd support this?

Mejia: So, you know, in regards to the political will, you know, political will is created when there's a great deal of public attention to an action on a particular issue, and we have seen that this particular issue has gotten a lot of attention. There is definitely an interest in exploring this topic more, and I believe now it's our job as Councilors to take the interest and turn it into action.

And in regards to Mayor Wu, based on some of the things that I've seen in the press, is that she's open and interested in hearing how the work continues. And I do believe — in this moment in time, given her equity agenda — I do believe that she'll be leaning in in a favorable manner.

Wintersmith: Councilor Mejia, Councilor Fernandes Anderson, thank you so much for being with us.

Fernandes Anderson: Thank you so much.

Mejia: Thank you.

Wintersmith: We've been speaking with Boston City Councilors Julia Mejia and Tania Fernandes Anderson. This is GBH’s All Things Considered.