Rep. McGovern: 'The Vice President Can't Really Do Anything' To Change Election Results

Congress meets in a joint session today to codify the Electoral College vote that made Joe Biden the next President of the United States. The procedure could be drawn out though as a large number of Republicans plan to object the vote based on unfounded claims of voter fraud from President Donald Trump. GBH Morning Edition host Joe Mathieu spoke with Congressman Jim McGovern, who represents Massachusetts' 2nd congressional district and chairs the House Rules Committee, about his expectations for today's historic session. The transcript below has been edited for clarity.

Joe Mathieu: I don't want to get too bogged down into procedure here, but we understand the joint session will be broken up when Republicans offer objections today. The House and Senate will retreat to their own corners and debate will follow. To be clear, though, Congressman, Joe Biden will still be President-elect at the end of this day?

Congressman Jim McGovern: That's correct. What Republicans will accomplish today is making this a long day, but there are a majority in the House and there are a majority in the Senate that will respect the will of the people, that will respect the results that are being forwarded to us by each state, and this will be over with. So I think some of these Republicans who are going to have objections today are doing so because they're hoping to inherit Donald Trump's base if they might want to run for president. But the bottom line is it's not going to change what happens on January 20th. Joe Biden will be the next President of United States.

Mathieu: How long can this go? How much time does each objection get?

McGovern: So they'll get about two hours, which really is about three hours because when the objection is recognized — and you have to have both a House member and a Senate member joined together — then both chambers will break up. So we'll probably take an hour to reconstitute the Senate in the Senate and the House in the House. And then it's about two hours of debate. Then there'll be a vote, and then we come back again to continue the count.

Mathieu: We know there's enormous pressure on Vice President Mike Pence to come through, as President Trump calls it, and reject the vote today. We understand, though, he may not actually be there. Do you expect to see Mike Pence preside over the Senate?

McGovern: I do, that's what traditionally has been the case. But the bottom line is Mike Pence's role is mostly ceremonial. He has no power to reject the results or to change the results. He really doesn't even have the authority to say much other than just to preside over the procedures.

Mathieu: You know this drill, Congressman, not only as the rules chair, but four years ago you objected to Donald Trump being elected. And I'd like people to hear about how this went. This was January 6, 2017, with a Vice President named Joe Biden presiding. [There was] quite a reaction there in the chamber. Your objection, Congressman, was not entertained because of a technicality — you didn't have a senator sign on — but can you explain to us how that was different than what Republicans are doing today?

McGovern: Well, what was different was that all of our intelligence agencies made it clear that a foreign adversary — in this case, Russia — interfered in our election. And I raised to call attention to that and to try to get an assurance that, in fact, we will get a full accounting. A few others join with me. The total time that we took up on the House floor was about eight and a half minutes. We weren't trying to change the results, what we were trying to do is to point out how significant it was and how serious it was that Russia interfered in our election. Now, that was based on evidence. The difference is that we've had recount after recount, we've had Republican governors and Republican secretaries of state certify these elections in Joe Biden's favor, we've had courts led by Republican judges [and] we've even had the Supreme Court that Donald Trump packed all reject these claims that there was some sort of fraud or something that was something was wrong with this election. So there's a difference. And by the way, after Trump won the election, Hillary Clinton conceded. I actually congratulated the President-elect and I attended his inauguration. I didn't like it. I thought he was a terrible choice and I think he's been a terrible president, but nonetheless, I respected the results. But my objection was based on the overwhelming evidence that a foreign country — in this case, Russia — interfered in our election.

Mathieu: I'm glad you took the time to explain that, Congressman. Lastly, we're hearing the term "blue wave" again this morning. If Democrats take control of the U.S. Senate, what does that mean for the party's agenda? Wall Street seems to think it's more stimulus, but also more taxes. What would the next two be like?

McGovern: Well, first of all, I'm thrilled with what happened in Georgia. It was historic that Reverend Warnock won, and I'm looking forward to Jon Ossoff being declared the winner today. What it means is that we get to control the agenda in terms of what gets put on the Senate floor. And it means that we can move forward on these $2,000 survival checks that Mitch McConnell has been frustrating. It means that we can deal with issues like economic stimulus and a transportation bill, expanding health care protections and dealing with the issue of the climate crisis. It means we will be a voice on behalf of working people. Look, one of the things that I think made a difference in this election was it became clear that Mitch McConnell and the Republicans rigged the system in favor of those who are well-off and well-connected — the big corporations. That's going to change. It's not going to be easy — it's still going to be a very, very, tight vote in the Senate as well as in the House — but it means that important issues, things that matter to real people, can be brought forward, debated and voted on. I think that's welcome news to the American people, especially in the midst of this pandemic.