President Trump has said he will sign a spending bill this afternoon that will prevent another partial government shutdown, but he has also indicated he's prepared to open a new front in his battle with Democrats over border security. Minutes before Congress voted to approve the spending package last night, Trump announced he plans to declare a national emergency to pull funding from other areas to fund the building of a wall at the U.S.-Mexico border.
Trump's plan for a declaration is already drawing promises from Democrats — including Massachusetts Congressman Jim McGovern — to use every available legislative and legal tool to block the president's attempt to declare a national emergency. McGovern spoke with WGBH Morning Edition Host Joe Mathieu about the spending bill and his plans to push back on the president's plan to declare a national emergency. The transcript below has been edited for clarity.
Joe Mathieu: Democrats are threatening to fight the president's move, will this go to court?
Congressman Jim McGovern: Well, I think it will go to court, but before that before it goes to court, I hope Congress will pass a resolution of disapproval in both the House and Senate and have enough votes to basically stop this. I mean this is, as Eugene Robinson from The Washington Post said, is this constitutional vandalism and it can't be allowed to stay as the president wants.
Mathieu: So there is a legislative answer to this before you take a legal maneuver?
McGovern: Well, I mean, you could probably do both. I mean, the bottom line is that we could pass a resolution of disapproval. The president has to sign it or veto it. I assume he would veto it. We have to make sure we have enough votes to override the veto. But over the last few weeks I have heard one Republican after another urge him not to do this. They claim that if he does this, it sets a bad precedent, and they kept on pointing to a potential Democratic president declaring a national emergency to deal with the gun crisis or to deal with the climate crisis. But look, this is to me, the way I understand my constitutional history, this is a violation of the Constitution. And if we can't do it legislatively, I hope and expect that the courts will act in a way that will stop him.
Mathieu: You mentioned other Republicans, Congressman, I must admit you sound a lot like Mike Pence this morning back when he was Governor Pence, talking then about President Obama's move to change immigration laws through executive order. This is Governor Pence speaking in 2014.
Clip of Vice President Mike Pence: I think it would be a profound mistake for the president of the United States to overturn American immigration law with the stroke of a pen. Issues of this magnitude should always be resolved with the consent of the governed. Signing an executive order, giving a speech, barnstorming around the country defending that executive order, is not leadership.
Mathieu: That's Governor Pence at the Republican Governors Association. Congressman, could you possibly appeal to the vice president to get involved since he apparently feels strongly about this?
McGovern: Well, next time I see him I will remind him of his words. But President Trump said something similar. And again, this goes far beyond what normal executive orders would deem as appropriate. And the Congress yesterday, the House and the Senate, in a bipartisan way, basically rejected the president's call for $5.7 billion for a cement wall along our border. I mean Congress passed a bill to keep the government running and it purposely denied the president the money that he was asking for. So this flies in the face of what a bipartisan compromise on the budget deemed was appropriate yesterday. So I think the president's in for one hell of a fight, and I think he's not on solid ground here. I think he thinks he's a dictator and not a president, and maybe someone in his staff needs to give him a history book about the Constitution. But the bottom line is this is yet another outrage in a long string of outrages coming from this White House.
Mathieu: We're talking with Congressman Jim McGovern on WGBH Radio. Congressman, a lot of our listeners are asking where is the money going to come from? What exactly does the president plan to do, as we hear reports that he may tap disaster relief funds, for instance, to pay for the wall?
McGovern: Yeah, well that would be horrific. I mean, actually taking money away from fighting disasters and helping communities rebuild, like the California wildfires or hurricanes that have hit Texas. In fact, the entire Texas delegation, including the Republicans, wrote to the president asking him not to touch disaster relief money in Texas. But what we're hearing today is some of the money he's looking at may come from a Defense Department drug interdiction efforts, which by the way are effective and they're targeted at ports of entry along our border. So he will actually weaken our drug interdiction effort if he was successful. [He's also considering using] military construction money. I mean, we have military bases all around the country that are in disrepair, so I'm not sure which military bases he's going to target to not be rebuilt. So he's going to announce that today. But, you know, wherever he's looking, he's going to deny you know progress in important areas where this money has already been obligated. But he's just he's just wrong on this. He's wrong because Congress doesn't want him to do this. He's wrong because it violates the Constitution, and I can't imagine a judge siding with him on this. And I think he's going to be in for a surprise when we move on a resolution of disapproval. I think there'll be a lot of Republicans that will join with us on this. So maybe this is just some political cover so that Ann Coulter doesn't get mad at him today. But my understanding is he's going to announce this and then go to Mar-a-Lago and golf and relax all weekend. But he's in for a fight.
