Jeremy Siegel: You’re listening to GBH’s Morning Edition. Nearly a third of Americans say they interact with artificial intelligence almost constantly or several times a day. And the vast majority, according to Pew Research, have used it. Now, one of our newest technologies is being taken on by older Americans.

Nick Basbanes: My name is Nicholas Basbanes. You can call me Nick. Thank you.

Siegel: Nick Basbanes is an octogenarian author from Massachusetts who has dedicated his life to writing about writing.

Basbanes: I think I received my first paycheck in 1964, when I was a cub reporter in the summer my college years. So that’s 60 years I’ve been a professional writer and getting compensated for my work. So needless to say, I have a very great proprietary sense about my work.

Siegel: And when Nick first tried ChatGPT and realized the chat bot might be taking and using his work to fuel its AI, he started thinking about all the painstaking hours of research and writing that went into his books.

Basbanes: And I’m concerned that it might be exploited, at no compensation to myself and to others like me.

Siegel: So Nick tells me he and his neighbor in North Grafton — also a writer and journalist, also an octogenarian, and also named Nick, Nick Gage — decided to file a class action lawsuit against ChatGPT and Microsoft over using published work without permission. So what exactly is at issue at the center of your lawsuit? Is it that you’re not being paid for your work, being used to fuel artificial intelligence? Is it the fact that they didn’t ask for your permission?

Basbanes: Well, it’s beyond that. I mean, a writer lives to be read. That’s not the point. And this is not just compensation. Compensation, of course, that’s part of it. But what they have done — and they acknowledge this, there’s no question about it. They acknowledge it. They are using copyrighted material to build an apparatus, a money-making apparatus that will create great profit to themselves. And they’re using material, copyrighted material, intellectual property that is mine, that is Nick Gage’s and every other writer like us. And not only nonfiction writers, but fiction writers, without our permission, without our authorization. And the sole purpose is to create for themselves a moneymaking entity. That’s fine. This country is built on enterprise and on business. Terrific. But you have to pay for what you’re getting.

Siegel: Have you yourself used ChatGPT?

Basbanes: Sure. I have gone after it to see how accurate it is, you know, see if it makes mistakes. It makes a lot of mistakes. I ask it things that I know the answers to. I don’t see AI in the immediate future taking that away, you know, this — I don’t know if I’m phrasing this properly, but this unique human capacity to think.

Siegel: ChatGPT is sometimes used by people who are not professional writers like you to help start writing or make what they write that they feel isn’t professional more professional. Do you think there is a time and a place for AI to be used just as a tool to help people who need it?

Basbanes: You know, in this book I’m working now, I asked an archeologist at the British Museum who reads cuneiform in its original state, 4,000-year-old text that he then uses to go out and find archeological landmarks. And I said, do you think that at some point you can be replaced by an artificial intelligence machine? He said, AI can help us, certainly inch in to deciphering certain text. But in the final analysis, the number one tool of my trade is still the trowel. You know, he has to go, and he’s the one that has to scrape away the dirt from the artifact. He’s the one that has to see that there’s some writing there that was it was scrawled up, on clay 3,000 or 4,000 years ago. And it’s still the human being that estimates, that makes the discrimination and the distinction, and from that derive the significance of it.

Siegel: That was author Nick Nicholas Basbanes, who has filed a class action lawsuit against Microsoft and ChatGPT alongside Nick Gage. Their suit is part of a growing wave of legal action against artificial intelligence, including from The New York Times, the Chicago Tribune, and authors like George R.R. Martin and John Grisham. ChatGPT and Microsoft did not return a request for comment. You’re listening to GBH news.

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Nick Basbanes, an author from Massachusetts, has dedicated his life to writing about writing.

“I think I received my first paycheck in 1964, when I was a cub reporter in the summer my college years,” he told GBH’s Morning Edition co-host Jeremy Siegel. “So that’s 60 years I’ve been a professional writer and getting compensated for my work. So needless to say, I have a very great proprietary sense about my work.”

When Basbanes first tried ChatGPT and realized the chat bot might be taking and using his work to fuel its AI, he started thinking about all the painstaking hours of research and writing that went into his books.

“I’m concerned that it might be exploited, at no compensation to myself and to others like me,” he said.

He and his neighbor in North Grafton — also a writer and journalist, also an octogenarian, named Nick Gage — decided to file a class action lawsuit against ChatGPT and Microsoft over using published work without permission.

Their suit is part of a growing wave of legal action against artificial intelligence, including from The New York Times, the Chicago Tribune and authors like George R.R. Martin and John Grisham.

ChatGPT and Microsoft did not return a request for comment from GBH News.

“A writer lives to be read. That’s not the point,” Basbanes said. “Compensation, of course that’s part of it. But what they have done — and they acknowledge this, there’s no question about it. They acknowledge it. They are using copyrighted material to build an apparatus, a money-making apparatus that will create great profit to themselves. And they’re using material, copyrighted material, intellectual property that is mine, that is Nick Gage’s and every other writer like us.”

Nearly a third of Americans say they interact with artificial intelligence almost constantly or several times a day. And the vast majority, according to Pew Research, have used it.

“The sole purpose is to create for themselves a moneymaking entity,” Basbanes said. “That’s fine. This country is built on enterprise and on business. Terrific. But you have to pay for what you’re getting.”

Basbanes himself has used ChatGPT.

“It makes a lot of mistakes,” he said. “I ask it things that I know the answers to.”

For his latest book, he spoke with an archeologist at the British Museum who reads cuneiform, the oldest known form of written language.

“He said, AI can help us, certainly inch in to deciphering certain text. But in the final analysis, the number one tool of my trade is still the trowel,” Basbanes said. “It’s still the human being that ... makes the discrimination and the distinction, and from that derive the significance of it.”