Paris Alston: This is GBH’s Morning Edition. With Father’s Day right around the corner, we are talking about the mental health of dads. A 2023 survey from the magazine Parents and the website Very Well Mind finds that many of them wish they felt more seen. As part of our ongoing series Wake Up Well, we are taking time on the first Wednesday of every month to speak with people in the mental health space about topics like this one. And joining us now is Charles Daniels, who is the CEO of Fathers Uplift, a Boston-based mental health and substance use facility for fathers and families. Charles, thanks so much for being here.

Charles Daniels: Thank you for having me.

Alston: And a reminder that this conversation is not a substitute for treatment, but meant to be a jumping off point. So, Charles, why do many fathers not feel seen in this way?

Daniels: So I do think that no father dreams of being a deadbeat, absent father. So when they’re not recognized, that brings about shame, guilt, and embarrassment. When it’s difficult for them to stay in their kids’ lives, that brings about depression and severe anxiety.

Alston: And what are some of those things that could prevent them from being as involved as would like to be?

Daniels: Absolutely. So one of the most common ones is relational struggles with the mother of the child. Another one is incarceration. We also see child support payments being an issue. There’s also this notion that 'I have to be perfect to be engaged,' and when fathers can’t live up to that image, it keeps them from trying to be engaged.

Alston: And what about the way that we see the role of a father? Does that impact their mental health at all, in terms of the expectations and how hard it may be to live up to those, not only as a father, but as a man existing in society, and some of those pressures that that we sort of pooh-pooh a little bit, but that do exist?

Daniels: Absolutely. My father once told me that he bought me school clothes, and that for him was his definition of what fathering meant in America. But what we’re seeing is that there’s a transition between this archaic definition of providing things physically - money to the child has been the sole responsibility of father. The father also can provide emotional, nurturing love here. Just being present for free is also a benefit. So those definitions are changing. And I think society is starting to slowly recognize that. Nonetheless, there’s a huge hamper on fathers having to provide money and everything else.

Alston: Are there other types of support you would like to see in terms of policy?

Daniels: I do think it’s important to really - for us to acknowledge how difficult it is for some fathers, especially low-income poor fathers, to pay child support. So I think some type of support of programs where fathers to feel heard and seen by the Department of Revenue or any enforcement office to support with those pays, but also provide other things that can support that dad, but not necessarily being afraid to pay those amounts of money, which could be a substantial amount for a dad who doesn’t know they should call the office in the rear just continue to pile up. I think another thing is more visits for fathers behind bars. You know, so because the father is behind bars doesn’t mean his role disappears. So how do we create prisons and jails for fathers to spent adequate time with their kids? How do we coach the families to engage in those visits? I think another thing is also just being open to mental health and substance use treatment. You know, we all can become shortened by trauma. I mean the trauma in our lives and become a victim to that. I think oftentimes we have to be delicate but also sensitive to some of the fathers’ past despair. So really opening up treatment and making it more normal, how we talk about it, some of the resources and referrals that we have. How do we tell a father, hey, it’s okay to go to therapy, it’s okay to have someone support you. And I would say some of those things are some tangible things that we can do. But most importantly, I think letting the father know that he is loved regardless of where he is. It’s one of the most simplest things that we can do.

Alston: We know that one group of fathers who really needs that support is new fathers. And I was looking at this study, that looked at the brain change in first-time fathers and finding that men lose about 1% of their gray matter brain volume during the transition to their new role, especially the more time that they spend with their infants. I’m sure there’s a lot of things that could explain that. But Charles, I actually have someone in the studio here with me who has a question relevant to that, and it is my co-host, Jeremy Siegel.

Jeremy Siegel: Yeah. And like a true journalist, Paris, I’m here to break a little bit of news, which is that I am soon going to be a new dad almost any day now. So my question, Charles, is: As Paris just mentioned that it looks like my brain might literally change once I have a little one at home. What advice do you have for a new dad whose life is going to completely change?

Daniels: The first thing. And congratulations, by the way.

Siegel: Thank you, thank you.

Daniels: I think the first thing is for the dad, for you all, to determine what is the definition of the dad that you want to be. Now, here’s the thing: You probably already have definitions in your mind of what the dad that you think you need to be based on what relatives have told you in the past. My first thing for all new dads: Get out a piece of paper. Think about the dads in your life. Think about some of the characteristics that you enjoyed, but also think about the characteristics that you want to stay away from. And write those characteristics down to define the type of dad that you want to be, and focus on the things that you can generally do free of charge, that make you happy, and that made you happy when you were a child. Think about the things that men did in your life that benefited you, that made you feel important as a kid. The second thing I would say is: Get you a therapist. And I’m not say that to be biased, right? But dads, entering pregnancy, go through a roller coaster of experiences. We know what the research says, from weight gain from, you know, feeling like a third wheel as a mother is developing this bond with the child. It’s going to be important for you to have someone that may not be your family member, that is a neutral party that you can talk to. Probably go once a month, just so you can check in and let them know what you’re going on to reflect on your own journey. The third thing I will say is journal. Journal til you can’t journal anymore. When you have some time to sit down and process your experiences and what you’re feeling, it’s always good to get it on paper so you can reflect back on that experience and what it was for you, but also keep yourself centered. I think those three things are some of the most important things that we can do as we’re entering fatherhood.

Siegel: Charles, thank you so much for that. I need to go buy a journal after the show.

Alston: A lot to do, Jeremy, in the coming days here. Well, Charles, before we let you go, one thing we’ve been doing as part of this series is asking all of our guests to share an affirmation with us before they leave. So I will ask, now, what’s yours?

Daniels: Oh, my affirmation. Oh, that’s a very good one. One thing that I tell myself is that, who’s the author of your story? I am. And then I say, what does it mean? I say, I write my own ending, and that’s my affirmation.

Alston: Well, Charles Daniels is the CEO of Fathers Uplift. Charles, thank you so very much. Happy Father’s Day to you.

Daniels: Thank you. Have a good one.

Alston: And Jeremy, congrats.

Siegel: Thank you.

Alston: Big congrats, big news shared here. I hope you have a lot of tools in your father’s toolkit.

Siegel: Soon to be celebrating my first-ever Father’s Day on the other end of it.

Alston: Happy Father's Day to you as well. And you can find a list of mental health resources at GBH news.org/wake up. Well, for our next installment, we'll be talking about the mental health of activists. And if you like to chime in on that, you can text us at (617) 300-2008 or email thewakeup@GBH.org. You are listening to GBH news.

With Father’s Day right around the corner on June 16, we are talking about the mental health of dads. A 2023 survey from the magazine Parents and the website Very Well Mind finds that many fathers wish they felt more seen.

“When they’re not recognized, that brings about shame, guilt and embarrassment. When it’s difficult for them to stay in their kids’ lives, that brings about depression and severe anxiety,” said Dr. Charles Daniels Jr., who is the CEO of Fathers’ Uplift, a Boston-based mental health and substance use facility for fathers and families. “I do think that no father dreams of being a deadbeat, absent father.”

Daniels said he often sees fathers who struggle with staying in their children’s lives and dealing with similar issues: Relationship problems with the children’s mother, incarceration, difficulty in keeping up with child support payments.

There are also the pressures that fathers put on themselves, he said.

“There’s also this notion that 'I have to be perfect to be engaged,' and when fathers can’t live up to that image, it keeps them from trying to be engaged,” he said.

He’s seen those expectations get in the way of paternal relationships in his own life, he said.

“My father once told me that he bought me school clothes, and that for him was his definition of what fathering meant in America,” he said. “The father also can provide emotional, nurturing love care. Just being present for free is also a benefit. So those definitions are changing. And I think society is starting to slowly recognize that. Nonetheless, there’s a huge hamper on fathers having to provide money and everything else.”

There are some policy changes that can help, he said.

“I do think it’s important for us to acknowledge how difficult it is for some fathers, especially low-income poor fathers, to pay child support,” he said. Support from agencies like the Department of Revenue in which parents who are struggling can feel more seen and supported would help, he said.

Daniels said he would also like to see more programs to help connect parents in prisons and jails with their children.

“[Just] because the father is behind bars doesn’t mean his role disappears,” he said. “So how do we create prisons and jails for fathers to spent adequate time with their kids? How do we coach the families to engage in those visits?”

Supporting fathers and families also means helping people deal with trauma they may have experienced in life, he said.

“I think oftentimes we have to be delicate but also sensitive to some of the fathers’ past despair, really opening up treatment and making it more normal, how we talk about it, some of the resources and referrals that we have,” he said. “How do we tell a father, hey, it’s okay to go to therapy, it’s okay to have someone support you?”

But most importantly, he said, is “letting the father know that he is loved regardless of where he is.”

Preparing to be a father

One group of fathers who really needs that support is new fathers. Among them is GBH’s Morning Edition co-host Jeremy Siegel, who is preparing to welcome his first child any day now.

Daniels had warm congratulations — and some advice.

“I think the first thing is for the dad, for you all, to determine what is the definition of the dad that you want to be,” Daniels said. “You probably already have definitions in your mind of what the dad that you think you need to be based on what relatives have told you in the past.”

He suggested getting a piece of paper, thinking of the dads in your life, and writing down characteristics you admire and traits you’d like to avoid.

“Focus on the things that you can generally do free of charge, that make you happy, and that made you happy when you were a child,” Daniels said. “Think about the things that men did in your life that benefited you, that made you feel important as a kid.”

His second piece of advice: “Get you a therapist.”

“And I’m not say that to be biased, right?” Daniels said. “But dads, entering pregnancy, go through a roller coaster of experiences. We know what the research says, from weight gain from, you know, feeling like a third wheel as a mother is developing this bond with the child. It’s going to be important for you to have someone that may not be your family member, that is a neutral party that you can talk to. Probably go once a month, just so you can check in and let them know what you’re going on to reflect on your own journey.”

And third: Keep a record of milestones, daily events and early parenthood experiences.

“Journal ‘til you can’t journal anymore,” he said. “When you have some time to sit down and process your experiences and what you’re feeling, it’s always good to get it on paper so you can reflect back on that experience and what it was for you, but also keep yourself centered.”

He left us with an affirmation: “Who’s the author of your story? I am.”

“And then I say, what does it mean? I say, I write my own ending,” Daniels said.