Paris Alston: This is GBH's Morning Edition. This weekend, Boston will mark 50 years of its carnival celebration, which began in 1973. The festivities start with the J'ouvert Parade tomorrow morning in Dorchester, followed by the main parade marching from Roxbury to Franklin Park that afternoon. Last week, we spoke with Danielle Johnson of the Boston Society of Caribbean Culture and Heritage about Kiddies Carnival and calls for change and new leadership within the organization that currently puts together Boston Carnival. That organization is the Caribbean American Carnival Association of Boston. I recently stopped by Shirley's Pantry in Mattapan, which is named after Shirley Shillingford, president of CACAB.
Unidentified caller: Hi Shirley. This is Debbie from [unintelligible]. I'm just calling to let you know that a driver is on their way to you.
Shirley Shillingford: Thank you.
Alston: As the pantry's workers unloaded cases of soup, juice and water from a truck, I chatted with President Shillingford and her vice president, Kenya Beaman, about the meaning of the 50th anniversary in light of the recent challenges. Shillingford took me back to Boston Carnival's early days.
Shillingford: I was there like '75 because that's when I started to work for the mayor, Mayor Kevin White. There was a gentleman by the name of Ken Bonaparte Mitchell, who had the vision and who started it with a counterpart named Ivy Ponder. And so he ran it for probably two years. And then the man by the name of Sebastian Joseph took over with Edward Harry. And they ran it for 16 years. At the end of 16 years, they invited me to a meeting. And I came, and they spoke to me about taking the carnival over and voted me in as president.
Alston: I asked Shillingford and Beaman about their favorite memories in those nearly 50 years.
Shillingford: When Carnival was encompassed with Boston 200, and then again, Boston's birthday celebration and the Great Cities of the World Conference. It was so wonderful to, you know, when the mayor had all these different entities, the news media and different people coming from the various different countries. Because we believe in ethnicity. And since then, we have not had that.
Alston: Kenya, what about you? Do you have any really fund carnival memories?
Kenya Beaman: Oh, absolutely. I remember years ago going up there as a kid with my mom and watching all the floats go by. They would come right into Franklin Park. You know, they would drive right across the main entrance of the zoo. Like, I was just fascinated by the costumes, the size, the color. I mean, I think that it might have been then that I fell in love with the Caribbean culture and community. As I got older, I'm like, this is the biggest Black organization event in the city, and it's happening in our Black and Latino community. It's in our own backyard. I'm talking MLK Boulevard to Warren Street, to Blue Hill Avenue. I'm talking Talbot Avenue. I'm talking when carnival time comes, everybody reaps the benefit. You know what I mean? So, you know, when there's, like, talks and stuff like that, I'm like, we have a treasure here that we do not want to lose.
Alston: For you, President Shillingford, I mean, Kenya is referencing these calls for change that have been happening recently, change to how Carnival is organized, how it's marketed and advertised. What is your response to that?
Shillingford: A lot of times people think the grass is greener on the other side and they think it's as easy as it seemed to be. Just working with the city to get all this stuff done is the biggest challenge. You understand? They talk about change, and for the 50th anniversary, we as an association was never one that don't want people to collaborate. It's how you collaborate, the disrespect, the abuse of language, the description of me as a person. I would never work with these people.
Beaman: I would also say that even in our attempt to try to mend bridges or build bridges or whatever you want to call it, we did attempt to do that. And it pretty much didn't happen. We've sent emails, you know, suggesting that we have a neutral person moderate and facilitate the meeting so that there is no favoritism on either side, to see if we can somehow foster some, even a working relationship. Like, this is not personal. You know, granted, it could become personal, right? But we were trying to keep it business because we don't get paid for this.
Alston: So. President Shillingford, you have been in this position since 1990. That's 33 years. At what point do you think it may be time to make room for another leader?
Shillingford: First of all, my time is my time. I'm not going to say to you whether I will leave in two years or I will leave, no. God has blessed me with energy, with memory, with pizzazz. There are many people who are like me who couldn't do what I do. I'm not going to run because they tell me to run. I'm working for the city for 48 years and the city is not telling me to run. When I am ready to run, I run. The other thing is that there is absolutely nothing they will learn from me. I won't give them anything. You want to transition in a very peaceful and respectful way, you see, so that you are happy to give the person all your knowledge.
Alston: Each Carnival celebration sort of has its own unique flair and character. How would you describe that of Boston Carnival?
Shillingford: Boston Carnival is a treasure. When you think about when it started with 200 people to today, they have between 500 and 800,000 people. I mean, look at that. Since COVID, things have changed tremendously, you understand? And also some of the bandleaders who used to make costumes, they either died or they get older, so they don't want to do it. I don't see one young person saying they want to be a bandleader, and that is where they should be thinking about. What can we do to enhance what the older people did?
Alston: That was Shirley Shillingford, the president of the Caribbean American Carnival Association of Boston, along with Vice President Kenya Beaman. Boston Carnival takes place tomorrow in Roxbury and Dorchester. You're listening to GBH News.
This weekend, Boston will mark 50 years of its carnival celebration, which began in 1973. The festivities start with the J'ouvert Parade Saturday morning in Dorchester, followed by the main parade marching from Roxbury to Franklin Park that afternoon.
Last week, we spoke with Danielle Johnson of the Boston Society of Caribbean Culture and Heritage about Kiddies Carnival and calls for change and new leadership within the organization, Caribbean American Carnival Association of Boston, that currently puts together Boston Carnival.
I recently stopped by Shirley's Pantry in Mattapan, which is named after Shirley Shillingford, president of CACAB.
As the pantry's workers unloaded cases of soup, juice and water from a truck, I chatted with President Shillingford and her vice president, Kenya Beaman, about the meaning of the 50th anniversary in light of the recent challenges. Shillingford took me back to Boston Carnival's early days.
Shillingford first got involved in 1975, when she worked for then-Mayor Kevin White’s administration. She listed the names of the people who came before her: Ken Bonaparte Mitchell and Ivy Ponder, who launched Boston’s Carnival, and Sebastian Joseph took over with Edward Harry, who ran it for 16 years after them.
“At the end of 16 years, they invited me to a meeting,” Shillingford said. “And I came, and they spoke to me about taking the carnival over and voted me in as president.”
That was in 1990, 33 years ago.
“When Carnival was encompassed with Boston 200, and then again, Boston's birthday celebration and the Great Cities of the World Conference. It was so wonderful ... when the mayor had all these different entities, the news media and different people coming from the various different countries,” she said. “Because we believe in ethnicity. And since then, we have not had that.”
Shillingford’s vice president, Kenya Beaman, remembered going to Carnival as a child.
“I remember years ago going up there as a kid with my mom and watching all the floats go by. They would come right into Franklin Park,” Beaman said. “I was just fascinated by the costumes, the size, the color. I mean, I think that it might have been then that I fell in love with the Caribbean culture and community.”
As the years passed, Beaman said, she gained a new appreciation for Carnival.
“This is the biggest Black organization/event in the city, and it's happening in our Black and Latino community. It's in our own backyard. I'm talking: MLK Boulevard to Warren Street, to Blue Hill Avenue. I'm talking Talbot Avenue. … When carnival time comes, everybody reaps the benefit,” she said. “We have a treasure here that we do not want to lose.”
Shillingford said she has heard calls for new leadership in her organization.
“A lot of times people think the grass is greener on the other side and they think it's as easy as it seemed to be,” Shillingford said. “Just working with the city to get all this stuff done is the biggest challenge. You understand? They talk about change, and for the 50th anniversary, we as an association was never one that don't want people to collaborate. It's how you collaborate, the disrespect, the abuse of language, the description of me as a person. I would never work with these people.”
Beaman said they have tried to find ways to connect with people criticizing them.
“We've sent emails suggesting that we have a neutral person moderate and facilitate the meeting so that there is no favoritism on either side, to see if we can somehow foster some, even a working relationship,” Beaman said. “This is not personal. Granted, it could become personal, right? But we were trying to keep it business because we don't get paid for this.”
Shillingford said she is in no hurry to depart.
“First of all, my time is my time,” she said. “God has blessed me with energy, with memory, with pizzazz. There are many people who are like me who couldn't do what I do. I'm not going to run because they tell me to run.”
She also said she does not believe pushing her out will make for a smooth transition.
“There is absolutely nothing they will learn from me,” she said. “I won't give them anything. You want to transition in a very peaceful and respectful way, you see, so that you are happy to give the person all your knowledge.”
Boston’s Carnival, she said, is “a treasure" that needs to be preserved.
“Since COVID, things have changed tremendously,” she said. “And also some of the bandleaders who used to make costumes, they either died or they get older, so they don't want to do it. I don't see one young person saying they want to be a bandleader, and that is where they should be thinking about. What can we do to enhance what the older people did?”
