‘How do we show up for Black women?’: Local comedian breaks down the Will Smith Oscars slap

Everyone is still talking about the slap from Will Smith at the Oscars Sunday night. Smith issued a wide-ranging apology in an Instagram post last night, calling his behavior "unacceptable and inexcusable" and said "violence in all its forms is poisonous and destructive." He apologized to Chris Rock, the Academy, the producers and everyone watching in person and at home. To unpack the moment, Morning Edition host Paris Alston spoke to Tooky Kavanagh, a standup comedian and co-host of the “Loud Women” podcast.

Paris Alston: So Smith initially apologized on stage to the Academy, but he did not address Chris Rock directly. Now he is — what to make of that apologetic arc?

Tooky Kavanagh: Oh man. This is his villain origin story at this point. You know, I get that he was caught up in the moment and perhaps feeling justified in standing up for his wife. And so, what sense does it make to apologize to whom you perceive as the perpetrator of an offense? But of course, now he has to walk all of that back. So, I'm not surprised by any of it.

Alston: As I said, everybody has had a take, including yourself. I really appreciated the sort of play-by-play and your tweets. As all of this unfolded, everything from this four-frame of Lupita's reaction, which was my favorite part of the whole thing, to a meme about Chris Rock being “La La Land,” Will Smith being “Moonlight.” But also, these softer takes about the need to defend Black women with a "slap-like vigor," as you say. So what all was going through your mind as this happened?

Kavanagh: Probably entirely too much to cover in this one interview, but the Oscars themselves are a very high-scrutiny situation, especially because it's a traditionally very predominantly white space and a space in which actors of color are just so heavily judged and pitted against greater odds than our white counterparts. And so it's kind of like, "oh, well, he didn't stand up for his wife. Why wouldn't he stand up for his wife?" Or, "oh, well, because he acted now you can't take certain people anywhere." So it's sort of a no-win situation in that regard.

But I'm trying to at least see the positives in the situation, where Chris Rock displayed immense professionalism in keeping the show going on and stood so steadily in taking on an assault, essentially, while performing that now there are questions of like, was this a bit the whole time? Because he just kept the show rolling, because he just managed to take it on the chin, because he displayed, again, the utmost professionalism in such a harrowing moment.

And I don't condone the actions. And though he was defending specifically one Black woman, I think Will Smith's actions opened up the conversation about: How do we show up for Black women? What is the way in which we protect Black women? Because a lot of that sentiment exists online. A lot of that discourse is there. What are the means through which we actually implement protection for Black women? How do we stand up for us? I'm really like trying to reinforce in people's mind that "strong" is not the compliment they think it is, when you say it to a Black woman — and you know what? Sometimes we get to be the damsel in distress. We deserve that kind of love and tenderness and care and protection. Maybe not through violence, but —

Alston: Especially on the stage at the Oscars in front of millions of viewers —

Kavanagh: Where you're going to be heavily scrutinized, where honestly, the conversation about respectability politics is going to come up. We're under that lens where it's like, "oh, well, how should he have acted?" Are we not allowed to show emotion? But, how and in front of whom do we express that emotion? And how is it going to be received. It's so many questions.

Alston: One question I have with you being a comedian, you've talked about, this question of, was this intended? Was it scripted? Was it really off the cuff? So let's start with Chris Rock's joke. I mean, did that cross the line? Did it punch down too low?

Kavanagh: OK, so my general rule, the standard to which I hold myself, is that I don't make fun of anybody for something that they can't help. And I don't know how much knowledge Chris Rock had of Jada Pinkett Smith's condition. She's been open about it in recent times, about having alopecia. She's done Instagram, Red Table talks, all of those things. But why would we expect Chris Rock to keep up with every other celebrity's life? Right?

So there was also the question in my mind where, no offense to any viewers or anything, where it's like — G.I. Jane? That is a decades-old reference. And for someone of Chris Rock's level and talent, just the caliber of comedian who he is, who I look up to regardless, I'm like, he didn't get to where he is with off-the-cuff humor like that, that doesn't feel like a Chris Rock kind of joke. And there's a part of me that's like, did a white person write this? Because when's the last time we thought about G.I. Jane?

Alston: And a question for whoever did write it, I mean, is there a responsibility on them to be doing some research too?

Kavanagh: A little bit, yeah.

Alston: So Chris Rock is performing at the Wilbur Theater in Boston this week, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday night. All the shows are sold out. So as a comedian, when you go onstage after something like this happens, what do you do with the moment? Do you use it in your material or do you move past it?

Kavanagh: It sometimes depends on the moment, and it depends on how quickly you can distance yourself from the immediate emotion. Because as I put it, when you're inside the house, you're too immediate, you're too probably just wrapped up and caught up and don't have enough perspective because the audience is outside the house. And in order to make it humorous and for everybody to be in on the joke, you have to be kind of outside of the house with the audience because you're joking about looking in.

I expect a comic of Chris Rock's talent and experience to be able to have quick turnaround in terms of material on this moment. But for somebody who's maybe less than 10 years in, someone like me who is a quite making rent money off of comedy money just yet — you know, it's like maybe a week before I talk about something like that. So it just really depends on who you are. And of course, the bar is so high for Chris Rock that people need to hear his take on it, so he knows he has to step up in that regard.