The Baker administration and local teachers unions have been in a contentious back and forth over vaccinations for educators, and things have become particularly heated in the past week, after the Baker administration rejected a union plan that teachers get vaccinated in their own districts. Gov. Charlie Baker made the case that the plan could deprive the elderly and ill of vaccine doses. Teachers unions, including Massachusetts Teachers Association head Merrie Najimy, say that's a mischaracterization. Now, Najimy and leaders from other teachers unions are calling on the Baker administration to push back the mandatory return to the classroom from April 5 until after April vacation, and some Beacon Hill lawmakers are weighing legislation on the matter. Najimy spoke with GBH All Things Considered host Arun Rath on Friday. This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Rath: Tell us about the particulars. First off, what exactly was the union asking from the Baker administration?

Najimy: Baker, the Baker administration, reached a new height of dishonesty [Thursday] with his statement that was full of mischaracterizations, and he pitted educators and their unions against the communities that they live in.

We had laid down on the table well over a month ago, with Massachusetts Education Secretary Marylou Sudders, a proposal. It was actually a pilot to work in 20 communities that have the highest rates of COVID, generally communities of color, with the firefighters, EMTs and nurses to create what we call the "last mile vaccination site," in accordance with the CDC recommendation for all essential workers. It was designed to set up clinics in one school site in each of the school districts and have the firefighters who are certified do the vaccinations while the unions that represent all school employees, not just educators, help organize a systemic way to get our school employees vaccinated.

We know onsite vaccinations are most efficient, most effective and most equitable. We would have the highest take-up rates, the least amount of disruption to the student day, and we would get to herd immunity in the schools as quickly as possible. That's what the conversation was about [Thursday] — looking for a final answer on, can we take the amount that has already been designated for school employees and turn it into local distribution plans?

Rath: So the final answer on that was no. Even a couple of days earlier, though, this was already getting kind of nasty, with Baker making it sound like the teachers wanted to jump ahead of people he described as being the most vulnerable getting their shots, casting it in those kind of terms.

Najimy: Right, right. Quite frankly, it's sad, and it's reckless — especially now that we're upon the one-year anniversary of the pandemic and the closing of schools — that the governor is making defamatory statements against the educators who have put their lives on the line, along with all other essential workers, and trying to paint a story that just simply isn't true. It's quite divisive.

Rath: Vaccination at the mass vaccination sites, the four days that the Baker administration has set aside for teachers — can you tell us what is wrong with that, or what's insufficient about that?

Najimy: It's about 25,000 doses. We know from all experience that educators, that everybody who has to sign up, has some waiting period. You have to drive far to the mass vaccination sites. Our proposal overcomes a lot of obstacles that become least disruptive to the student day. So our proposal, it was an on-site, all in one registration. Educators would only need release time from their classrooms for a very short period of time, versus taking the whole day off and having their students be without them. We have a substitute crisis already. The plan was to stagger the vaccinations, to do 25% of the the faculty each day, close to the weekends, so that we're not having large amounts of educators having to be off as a result of perhaps a side effect.

So what we're really calling for now — the governor has manufactured a vaccine crisis because he's set an arbitrary date of April 5 for full reopening. All he has to do is change that date. There is consensus across the state from educators, families who are facing the highest risks and don't want to go back, school committees and even the state legislators that the right thing to do at this point is simply push back the April 5 arbitrary start date to right after April vacation.

Rath: We talked about this as a final decision, and the governor sounded like this decision on teacher vaccinations was final. But we have also seen him reverse course on issues related to the pandemic, specifically related to vaccination. I mean, we are right here talking about teacher vaccinations now based on a change in his earlier position. Do you think that there is room for dialog still between teachers unions and the governor on this?

Najimy: The dialog now has to be around this arbitrary April 5 start time. The reality is educators got the first shots in their arms [Thursday and Friday], and they're quite joyful. We've been polling across the state. n high 80s to high 90s, school employees are saying they will feel safe being back in the buildings once they're fully [vaccinated].

I don't see that the governor is going to change his position now. So what we have available are the mass vaccination sites, the pharmacies and the regional vaccination sites. By the end of April, using those vehicles for vaccination, we can get the first shot into everybody's arms, and that's what President Joe Biden has called for — get the first shot into all school employees' arms before full return.

That's why it's more logical to push the start date of full reentry until the week after April vacation. The other thing that the commissioner and the governor — they have this abstract notion how this works. I've been teaching for 30 years, elementary school. I know all of my colleagues share this point of view, that it's disruptive to students to bring them in for two weeks of April, have them go on vacation, and come back and try to finish the school year when we are in a moment where they are experiencing deep trauma. Let's not disrupt them, and let's just start the last week of April.

Rath: I'd like to ask you, before we go, a kind of a broader question about this, because I think a lot of people are disturbed. A year ago, back when the governor declared a state of emergency and as we were facing closing schools and all of that madness, there was a great deal of unity. We all felt like we were all on the same page. It really feels like maybe since the fall, roughly, that we've started to come apart - that we've been at odds, with the teachers unions, with the governor, some tension between parents and teachers. Leaving aside blame as much as we can, do you see a way that we can get back to unity on this, get back to where we were?

Najimy: The thing that we actually can't lose sight of is, school has come into the living rooms and the kitchens of every single family in America. Parents, despite the fact that there may be disagreement on what the school model is - there's a range. Many parents, we know from national polling, are actually satisfied with the model that they've got. But even if families are dissatisfied — and it's a vocal minority — they are deeply appreciative, because they see and understand school in a way they've never been able to before. So despite the rhetoric that's out there, despite the tensions, because people are feeling uncared for more by the state than anybody else, there is deep appreciation for each other. We have to hold on to that.

There is consensus in Massachusetts, from educators to school committees, superintendents, families and our elected officials, that the right thing to do at this very moment is give the schools the time that they need to really redo all of the plans that need to be redone. Shifting gears, finding out how many families are going remote, rearranging classrooms, bus schedules.

We just have to continue to be patient and generous with each other. Because at the center of this, we all want what's best for our students. Many of them are in a hybrid model and in return, and we want to be fully back with each other. We can get there if we do it right.