The Boston Symphony Orchestra is getting a new CEO. When Gail Samuel comes on the job in June, she'll be the first woman to lead the organization that includes the orchestra itself, as well as the Boston Pops, Tanglewood and other BSO elements. Samuel is currently head of the Hollywood Bowl and COO of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. She spoke with GBH All Things Considered host Arun Rath. This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Arun Rath: So let's maybe start off on a more somber note, talking about where we are right now. The pandemic has taken quite a toll on the performing arts. So many of our conversations about music these days are about what we're not seeing, how musicians are just surviving. Could you give us your sense of how the BSO is doing right now, in your estimation, coming in? And also what you might have experienced dealing with the situation in California, how that might inform your approach to leading the BSO?
Gail Samuel: Sure. As you said, everyone has suffered so much, and the arts have been no exception. Our organizations exist in the performing arts to bring people together around collective human experiences, and that is exactly the thing that we haven't been able to do for the last year. Both the BSO and the L.A. Philharmonic, like most other organizations, turned to digital content and trying to connect with our audiences and our supporters online. Different organizations did it in different ways, but I think we all found a way to pivot fairly quickly to try and continue to connect, and that has been wonderful. I think at the same time, there is such pent up demand to get back together and actually experience music in the same place. So we really just have to follow the science and follow the protocols that are in place. My belief is very much that as far as mission driven organizations, our responsibility is to do whatever we can do for people physically in the space as soon as we are able to.
Rath: We are just as hungry to get our symphony back here in Boston as the folks in California. Now, so many ensembles and groups have had to shut down, and we're still not through this pandemic. Do you feel confident that you can tell us that we're still going to have an orchestra when this pandemic is over?
Samuel: Absolutely. The good news is that the BSO is robust and has been a well-run organization, and so we will come out of this. I think that what we have to do is find the opportunity in it. We have to figure out the steps forward, and that may be slow. And I think that, though there is pent up demand, getting back to where we were will take a while. I also think there's also opportunity to make some different decisions and move things forward in a different way that might be very healthy.
Rath: What do you think are the biggest challenges that will be facing you from day one?
Samuel: The BSO, like many organizations, had to lay off a lot of staff, so I think that there has just been a lot of pain and suffering through everybody within the organization. We need to really rally and figure out the path forward. We have to figure out finances, and and we have to continue to figure out how to connect with audiences. The other thing right now, certainly, is looking at the organization differently in terms of how we can be more relevant in the 21st century and to the really wide community of Boston.
Rath: The BSO has been around for 140 years. When you take over in June, you'll be the first woman to run the show, so to speak. I think people who may be casual listeners may not be aware of how much sexism there has been in the classical music business — the dearth of women in leadership roles, or in some cases in any roles at all. Could you put this in some context for us and what it means for you personally?
Samuel: Sure. I mean, you're right. I think that classical music has generally also been very white and seen as very elitist. So I think there are lots of levers of equity that we're looking at. For me, being the first woman in this role is is significant. It's an honor for me, and I really embrace that. I think it's important for organizations to show that we are for everyone, and that includes at the highest levels of our organizations.
Rath: I didn't realize until I read today that the BSO was actually the first orchestra to start having blind auditions to get past bias.
Samuel: Yeah, and those blind auditions went a long way toward gender equity in orchestras. I think the next hurdle that we're certainly all talking about, and which is really important for organizations, is how do we also apply that lens to race? And certainly blind auditions have have not helped us in that way. We really have to look at ourselves and think about the barriers to access that have existed and how we can use the assets of the organization to start to break those down.
Rath: When I think about sexism in classical music — and I'm saying this as a fan, I'm saying this with love — it extends to programing as well. There are a ton of great women composers, but we never seem to hear pieces from, say, Amy Beach or Ethel Smyth. As to your point, we could say the same thing about African-American composers. One of the things I loved about the L.A. Philharmonic was it was more adventurous in programing than most orchestras in America. Do you think we might see that here in Boston?
Samuel: Yeah. Certainly the L.A. Philharmonic has been on the leading edge of that work, and that's been a really wonderful experience. I think the answer is yes. I think we have to see more of that everywhere, and we have to really look at who's on the podium and who our composers and soloists are, and again, break down those barriers to access. I think for classical music, it starts very early in children's lives where those barriers start to appear. So I think for the BSO, we need to look at our various programs and assets, whether it's Tanglewood or the BSO or the Pops or any of our programs, and really see where we can have the most impact the most quickly.
Rath: One other thing I noticed in Los Angeles when I went to the symphony there was that the crowds, the people coming to the shows, were more diverse than anywhere I'd seen in America. I'm wondering if you have any insight into that and if we could expand the diversity of the audience here in Boston.
Samuel: Sure. That's where I really believe that representation on the stage matters. People respond to knowing that they can see people like them on the stage. So I do think that programing is kind of where that starts, but I absolutely think there can be an impact. The other part is really understanding our communities so that we are sure to be welcoming to everyone.
