Two immigrant friends, one Ukrainian and one Russian, watch in horror from the US

Outside the lines of politics and politicians, the people of Ukraine and Russia are not at odds with each other. The people of both countries share so much: similar languages, similar cultures, bonds of family and friendship across the border. In New England, too, that shared upbringing brought together two close friends who are now University of New Hampshire staffers.

One is Ukrainian, the other Russian, and they’ve been watching this crisis play out in horror, and I'm sure they're like many friendships all across this country and the world. Olivia Babin, an administrative coordinator at UNH who grew up in Kyiv, and Katya Burvikova, a UNH lecturer who grew up in Moscow, joined host Arun Rath on All Things Considered. What follows is a lightly edited transcript.

Arun Rath: Olivia, thanks for joining us.

Olivia Babin: Thank you for having me.

Rath: And Katya, also, thank you for being with us.

Katya Burvikova: Yes, of course. Thank you for having me as well.

Rath: And let's just start off — could you tell us the story of your friendship, your friendship origin story? How did how did the two of you first connect and come to be friends?

Burvikova: So I remember a few years ago we learned that we are going to have a new admin assistant. And when we learned that it's Russian-speaking person, it's a person from Ukraine, we all got excited because, you know, it's one more person to our team that shares similar cultural code and speaks the same language. So then my boss — she's now retired — and I, we went to meet Olivia and we got very excited about her.

Babin: And on my side, just a few years ago, I just completed a master of education when I saw the job posting at University of New Hampshire. During the first few days, I met the faculty members in Russian programs — and that was Katya Burvikova — and they came into my office, we spoke the same language and we automatically had the perfect connection. So I am really happy to have people who I can connect on a more personal level because, like we said, there are many cultural aspects that we share.

Rath: Yeah, let's talk about that. Because I'm of the age that, I was a kid when it was still the Soviet Union. And I remember after, "Russian" was just sort of the shorthand for all kinds of ethnicities, whether you were Russian or Georgian or Ukrainian. Tell us, though, a bit about what particularly Russia and Ukraine really hold in common.

Babin: So just like you are, I grew up on the Soviet Union. I was born in Soviet Union, in the Republic of Ukraine. So Ukraine became independent when the Soviet Union broke down. Growing up in Soviet Union, we shared basically everything. We grew up reading the same books, we grew up reading stories of World War II — how our grandfathers were fighting enemies that came to our land.

Burvikova: Yeah, I totally agree. I grew up in the Soviet Union as well, and I remember when I was probably five years old in kindergarten, we would dance Ukrainian dances. Also we would watch cartoons made in Kyiv, of course Ukrainian and Russian food is always there. So I feel like Olivia could be my sister.

Rath: Wow. Katya, let me ask you: As a Russian, this must be awful for you to watch this, what's happening with Vladimir Putin and this war?

Burvikova: Yes. So when this war happened, it was very hard to believe that this thing is possible because, as Olivia mentioned, we all grew up hearing stories of veterans from Eastern Front, and they always told us this war is something awful. You should stay away from any kind of conflict. And then you see that your country is being aggressive towards the main neighbor.

And it's very hard to believe and very hard to digest, and many Russians are against this war. Many Russians cried because of that, because this is something that was very unnatural. I cannot say that all people are against this — there are some people who support this — but they think they are all brainwashed by propaganda.

And you see what is this impact of propaganda. It's just unbelievable. Twenty-first century and it's hard to believe that people have no access to independent media, they cannot rely on other views. It's very, very scary.

Rath: Olivia, I have to ask you, do you have family in Ukraine now? And can you tell us how they're doing?

Babin: Yeah, so I come from a very large family. I have four siblings and my parents are all in Kyiv, Ukraine. They lived in Kyiv. So I'll tell you that it's been an unbelievable shock for them that it was actually already going on.

On the first day, it was midnight here when I called them and I texted them and I said, “The war started.” And they said, “You’re kidding, this is not possible. You are joking. This is not true.” Because there were warnings, but they could not process it, and they could not really believe that this would be a full-scale attack.

On the second day, when there was a loud explosion in the area where my sister and mom lives, that's when it became real. They saw the red sky. They saw a very loud noise outside. At that moment, they said, “Let's leave.” And so they scattered all over the country and all over the place.

Some of them made to the western — one of my brothers made to the western part of the Ukraine. But unfortunately, he cannot cross the border. And he's there with his family of four people with his kids, his wife, volunteering at the border, helping refugees who have been traveling for many hours, sitting in the cars.

And you have to remember those people left unprepared. So many of them have not packe diapers because most of the families are with children and women, so they don't have basic items that you typically pack when you plan. So my older brother and father, a pastor, they stayed behind near Kyiv, helping those that do need help. Many of the elderly, sick are left at their homes, have no place to go and really scared.

Rath: And Katya, on the Russian side, I think about worries like the crackdown on dissent and sanctions that could be hurting ordinary Russians before too long. How about your your family? How are they doing?

Burvikova: Well, my family is doing okay for now. I hear from my friends that there were huge lines to exchange money, to get cash from ATMs, the food supply’s being — I mean, there is food there, but people want to buy more food for now.

It's going to affect the whole country, and many people are afraid that is going back to the '90s, when a huge, huge financial crisis happened in Russia. So many economists predict that it's going to be the same and people are scared.

We had, well, I wouldn't say, like, good lives. I mean, for some people, life was good, so they will be losing a lot and it's going to be tough.

Rath: Katya, thank you so much for taking the time and and sharing with us.

Burvikova: Yes, thank you.

Rath: Olivia, also, thank you very much. This has been really good to have this conversation. We appreciate it.

Babin: Thank you for having them. Thank you.

Rath: That's Olivia Babin and Katya Burvikova, two friends who work at the University of New Hampshire. Olivia is Ukrainian and Katya is Russian. This is GBH’s All Things Considered.