No-fly zone would be 'an act of war between America and Russia,' Rep. Auchincloss says

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy will deliver a virtual speech to U.S. Congress members this morning, as Russia continues its attack on Ukranian cities. Massachusetts Congressman Jake Auchincloss will be at that meeting. He joined hosts Paris Alston and Jeremy Siegel on Morning Edition today to discuss the war. This transcript has been edited for clarity and length.

Jeremy Siegel: Congressman, this isn't something you see every day, a foreign leader addressing the U.S. Congress. What are the stakes right now and what do you expect to hear from President Zelensky?

Jake Auchincloss: No — it's a watershed moment, and I'm listening for two things: One, for President Zelenskyy to reinforce and emphasize the moral clarity and urgency of the moment. This is the free world under attack by autocracy and despotism. And two, an update of the facts on the ground, both the state of, military engagement with Russia, especially in the cities, and what are the specific pieces of military equipment and lethal and non-lethal aid that he needs to be successful both on the ground and in the skies.

Paris Alston: President Zelenskyy has been calling for a no-fly zone and increased military aid in the form of things like fighter jets. But President Biden has said over and over he's not going to move in that direction. Can you help us understand what the risks associated with that are? And if you think we should be moving in that direction?

Auchincloss: The focus by Congress on a no-fly zone right now is premature and unhelpful. I think we need to look at first principles here. So first principles is, we want to help Ukraine control the skies, and that can be done in a number of ways. A no-fly zone is the most extreme way and that it's an act of war by the United States against Russia. There are ways that are less provocative, like providing surface to surface, surface to air missiles, everything from stingers up through the S-300, long range missiles, communications and electronic equipment. Drones, counter drones. All of these equipment allow Ukrainian forces to shoot down Russian planes and to frustrate Russian air advances such that Ukrainian ground troops, which are more than holding their own right now, have the cover that they need.

Siegel: Congressman, what are you hearing from your constituents who are Ukrainian Americans about what they want to see? We're seeing new polling from Suffolk University of both Russian Americans and Ukrainian Americans showing, you know, that they're not overall happy with President Biden's response. So far, 7 in 10 Ukrainians saying the U.S. is not doing enough. Is that what you're hearing from your constituents?

Auchincloss: I think that's consonant with what we're seeing of more generic polling of Americans, which is that the majority of Americans support a no-fly zone, in fact. And yet the president needs to make foreign policy decisions with a long term, holistic view of American security and not based on a cross-section of American public opinion on any given day. To be clear, a no-fly zone is going to be an act of war between America and Russia. That involves American fighter jets shooting down Russian fighter jets, American fighter jets launching missile attacks against Russian surface installations in Ukraine that could have profound escalatory consequences with another nuclear power. It is not entirely off the table forever.

And I think in consultation with the Chinese, we should be making clear to the Kremlin that any chemical or biological attacks in Ukraine may lead to escalation in how we are engaged and that the Chinese could be in support of that, would be an effective step forward. But right now, we can give the Ukrainians the equipment they need to control the skies without risking a much wider, deeper, more severe war.

Alston: There have been increasing calls, Congressman, for for stronger sanctions for an oil embargo on Russia as a punishment. Where do you stand on that right now and what would be the long-term impacts of that, especially locally?

Auchincloss: Yes, to all the above, and I've been very clear for weeks now that the United States should not just be embargoing Russian oil, but that we should be coordinating a global embargo on Russian oil. There's about 100 million barrels a day of of oil consumption globally. Russia provides roughly five million of those barrels. If we do a global embargo, let's say for purposes of argument, that Russia could probably still sell two million of those barrels on the gray market for a discounted price, that means we have to backfill three million. We can do that without having to even go hat in hand to the Iranians, the Venezuelans. We can do that with domestic production and with OPEC production. So we should be cutting off the most important source of hard currency for the Kremlin, the most important way that they fund their government and military operations, which is oil. And I've been very clear about that.

We can also do more on the ground for the Ukrainian forces and in particular, electronic warfare. One thing the United States is very good at is forward deploying electronic warfare units. You pair the nerds with the grunts on the ground, and I've been both in my career and I can tell you they're very effective at disrupting command and control and logistics nodes in Ukraine. The Russians are already having a hard time with their command and control and logistics, and they're already having to communicate over clear channels, sometimes for their surface to air coordination. And if we can jam their radios and if we can disable their critical systems, we can frustrate even further their advances and we should be doing that in a surgical and deniable way.

Siegel: Congressman, you mentioned that this is a watershed moment in Congress. At the same time, this conflict is now entering its third week. In a way it's, you know, news that people are waking up to expect. We saw a tweet this morning that someone said, "I wake up, check on Zelenskyy, get coffee." I think a lot of people can relate to that. At the same time, President Zelenskyy has been effective in giving these addresses, keeping the conflict in the news. I'm curious what you think your role in Congress and what the federal government's role is in not allowing this to be normalized?

Auchincloss: It's such an important question, I really appreciate that I think about that a lot — as a political culture in the United States, we move on from things, right? Week by week, and there's the new issue that grabs the headlines. One thing we know about European conflicts from the time of Napoleon on is that they do affect Americans' daily lives. It just will. And we need Americans committed for the long haul to this struggle because it truly is a struggle of the free world against autocracy. It's one of the defining themes of the 21st century.

And so once this drops from the headlines, we need Congress to maintain strong support for the Ukrainian cause, and we're doing that right now with funding. We just passed a significant measure last week. It's going to be providing billions of dollars to Ukrainians over the coming year and when they win this fight against the Russians — and I am confident they will — we also need to be there to help them rebuild. Their cities have been shelled and destroyed. Americans and the free world need to stand beside Ukrainians as they rebuild their country and as they rebuild their economy because they have demonstrated what a tremendous people they are. And I have no doubt that they will be roaring out of the gate to rebuild their country.